Demystifying Quantum Computing

Quantum computing will introduce radical transformations across many areas like: medical and life sciences, security and encryption, and will super charge artificial intelligence. Companies like Microsoft, Google, and IBM are in a space race to build reliable quantum computing as a service. Mike J. Walker speaks to Delbert Murphy, Quantum Computing Expert at  Microsoft. Quantum computing will change the world, but how will it?  Listen in to hear what's real and fantasy about the quantum computing era.

🎯 SUBSCRIBE!
Newsletter: https://www.mikejwalk.com/subscribe
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikejwalker
Twitter: @mikejwalker
Podcast: https://bit.ly/2PtixFa
YouTube: https://bit.ly/2PqXiDT

All the previous episodes and show notes are available on: www.vnextpod.com
🤜  BE OUR GUEST ON ‘V-Next: The Future is Now’: https://bit.ly/3gzI2jS

Transcript

Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of The Next. I am your host Mike Walker. And today were going to jump into Quantum Computing and who better to have with us but Delbert Murphy. He is the worldwide Community leave for Quantum Computing at Microsoft. And so if theres anybody that have seen all the different patterns all the different perspectives, its definitely Delbert to go through what it is what it isnt when to use it when not to use it but also some practical advice for all of you so definitely stick around and listen, its going to be a cool episode with Oliver episodes The Links will be available on the next pod.com. Thats v-necks pod.com. Alright guys, lets get into it. Delbert welcome to the podcast Thanks. Thanks for having me Mike. So Im really excited about having you on today because I were talking about one of those topics that people like to kind of fantasize about its its one of those those Technologies thats far enough away that I can kind of touch it and feel it sorta kinda and so today, you know, demystifying essentially Quantum Computing and I couldnt imagine a better gassed, you know, you run the worldwide Community for Quantum Computing and so Delbert welcome and maybe could you give us a little bit of background about you and your journey to get to this point? Sure sure and a night Ive been wanting to keep in mind is that this this Quantum train is thundering down the track at us? So its definitely a change is coming quickly and then there are things you can do right now. So its not just out in the future. So Ill Ill Ill just touch on that very quickly and then by Journey with with Quantum Computing and quantum mechanics started a very long time ago and I would say in I I had a math. I got a masters degree in college and then just just because I loved math and I already knew how to program computers so I knew no matter what I had a job and it you know before I even went off to college, I I worked as a Professional computer programmer sew-in in those languages and formalism like that come very easily to me. So I I knew I had a job I could major in math and youre really enjoy learning all of that stuff shortly after graduation. I had a friend loan me a book called The Dancing Wu Li Masters by Gary zukav, and it was it was about Eastern philosophy and quantum mechanics and and how how they tie together and and especially one of the new developments did that it that that was really coming into prominence around the time that Gary zukav wrote that book was Bells theorem and its its pretty technical but Its essentially proof that the world the quantum world and the world that we perceive are just not quite what we think they are. And so the the the linkages between Bells theorem and Eastern philosophy. You wish was just a really neat connection. And and since I like Eastern philosophy anyway, it was it was really cool. And so that started this journey for me. Studying quantum mechanics and then fast forward to December of 2017. So that was your not too terribly long ago. I was in a Microsoft internal conference called emlet switch is the Microsoft machine learning and data science conference. There are literally thousands of folks from around Microsoft to at least at that time got together in person at the Microsoft Conference Center and exchanged ideas about machine learning and data science in Denver because that so important inside of Microsoft that that conference is it your drawers are a lot of intellectual Firepower. So its its great to just go and to learn and perhaps up right now and again and at that conference I cumed all the then a CVP of Microsoft Quantum presented a recruiting has basically a recruiting pitch in the keynote for folks to download and try the Microsoft Quantum development kit and Q sharp language. So that was for that works inside visual studio and they were going to release it about a week later about a week after this conference. And so he he wanted to enroll a bunch of beta testers and he was recruiting, you know for positions within the quantum team. So it was it was really a fantastic of that and so after the keynote I walked out of the car. Auditorium and in the Microsoft Conference Center, you know, theres that trunk of cement that came from the Berlin wall plug my laptop into that, you know the power cord into the outlet over there and I sat there for the rest of the conference and coded ifcu sharp lead or the rest of it and I its neat because I had you know, Ive been around Microsoft, you know for her for 15 16 17 years something like that and so old friends would drift by you know it at brakes and say hey how you doing? You only talk a little bit and then they go off to their thing and Id go back to it to keep sharp. And so thats when I really made this connection between computer programming tonight been doing I mean literally since 1916. Like I started started programming had a lot computers with my dad at the Highway Safety Research Institute at the University of Michigan. So anyway, this this burgeoning of computer programs and quantum mechanics in in all of the interesting your cat kind of is Einstein called it spooky action-at-a-distance are all of these things that that quantum mechanics experiments turn out now hit it. Its really been fascinating and and it turns out that there are certain classes of problems that this is just a terrific solution for so thats kind of how I got to to where I am today and it sounds like a lot of people Theyre the folks that are involved in this its its really about being their passion and they dont have formal degrees in in quantum mechanics or what have you but now that Quantum Computing has become so approachable and you know, you know when you went to that conference in there like hey, you can download this SDK and you can code and you have an ID that you know, and love great now its accessible. And so if I understand you correctly, it sounds like it was kind of the meeting in the merging of a passion with something being a cripple and available that you can Embrace right now my getting that exactly and and theres theres just one little thing I skipped over and that is we we we have to be careful. Its just like some of the democratization of machine learning Right. You have to be careful about making sure that you you understand the underlying math, Sol. I had been working in the math of quantum mechanics since 1983 so, you know off and on working on eigenvectors and you know good near operators and in all of those sorts of things. And in in in that December of 2017. I also started working on the quantum computation piece the math behind that and so I asked as Sister Rose sweet. They used to say in 7th grade to your homework show all your work right now. So theres been a ton of that. So I dont I dont want to gloss over the fact that you do you do need to spend some time with The the quantum mechanical Theory and I think thats why. Uc4 for a lot of the more advanced jobs. They definitely want phds. So theres theres this trade-off and then I think one of the best quantum Computing developers, Ive met, you know doesnt have a Ph.D. So that it is it is approachable, but there are still that theyre still work you have to put in so I want to I want to try that can caveat that just a little bit does that make sense makes total sense and thus your passion right? And you know, you went and threw many many years acquired that knowledge. Now you also run a other passionate people within Microsoft in unify if I understand correctly. Its its, you know close to 2,000 people across the company. Maybe tell us a little bit about that community and you know what youre doing to continue to stoke that that that fire that passion within Microsoft. I sure will first of all the the that theyre called the technical and Leadership Community sand and theres a family of about a hundred of these these communities of practice and its its a its a great learning and knowledge sharing opportunity within Microsoft. So its its fantastic that we do we have that kind of infrastructure available to help support different different pieces. And so originally it was developed to help consultants and Microsoft Consulting Services deliver better engagements, you know by knowing some of these different technology areas in depth, but its branched out now into all sorts. The different technology areas and youre just just areas of passion one really Vibrant Community within Microsoft has is called sustainability community. So its all its all about the that the things that that the challenge is Mother Earth is facing right now and how we can help her. So theres The Ant and the inside of the quantum Computing Community were were busily kind of exchanging information exchanging the latest articles, you know, some of them are are very interesting kind of clickbait almost and and just kind of some kind of debunking and and and so on so forth and then we also have a set of study groups. So there are study groups in Redmond in Australia in Germany in the Netherlands in India local groups got together and and work through a Quantum Computing textbook together and then each of those groups record their meetings and so on and so we funnel all those into the community. So the folks who may not live near one of those study groups and may not be able to join virtually because of time zone or whatever cuz I can continue to learn. We also have a road map of Curacao some things you can do at the 100 level and then the 200 level than 300 level in the 400 level to learn this material and sell. Weed and every also hosts monthly calls from different folks son from the quantum team themselves are some from members of the community about topics around Quantum Computing. So it it gives folks an opportunity from just those who are we call Quantum curious all the way through to our our friends who graduated perhaps with a degree in quantum physics and then ended up in information technology for some reason and now have a chance to you know, combine those passions back together. So thats the thats the community in a nutshell segue into essentially talking about, you know, demystifying this and I think the first step in demystifying Quantum Computing is really Around defining it, you know what it is and maybe even most importantly what its not right? And so so for you give me for you know, how do you define quantum Computing? Its it in its in its simplest form, right? We have classical Computing devices all over the place like this old. This old phone here that I refuse to give up. There are billions of bits in this phone. Right? I mean that the basic unit of computation in a classical computers the bet that writes water zero. There we go inside a quantum computer. The basic unit of calculation is a cubit K&N folks on. Im sure youve heard of cubits. They are quantum particles that youve either. Crafter produced somehow and then youre using their Quantum properties to help you do the computation. So a cube that is probabilistic meaning meaning that its its state just like, you know any other Quantum particle may when you measure at youre actually going to find out what the actual state of that Cubit is and so a cubit will use a single Quantum property as its 0 Words 1 Sol spin up or spend down for an electron for example would be one of the common Quantum properties that folks use and so in a qubit Theres a theres a probability of measuring either is 0 or a 1 based on would you measure that that Quantum property what the what the value X now it turns out that you can use in Edwards your Fineman originally discovered this idea and and suggested it then its been built upon by a number of different folks afterwards, but that the basic idea is you get these cubits and you set them in an initial state. And then you apply what they call Quantum Gates or Quantum operators on those cheap vets. And what that does is it it pushes the cubits into a certain State a certain probability and the idea is your algorithm needs to nudge these different values into the right spots when you measure you got the right answer. Okay, and and thats thats the basic the basics of of computation and you use that theres theres a certain set of tricks and patterns and things that come with the with the fact that this is a Quantum particle. And then there are there are a whole bunch of things from experiment and things like that that Quantum physicists have learned that you can apply to apply to this this discipline. So if you think about it, one of the big examples of folks talk about us breaking RSA encryption it literally it comes down to factoring large numbers because thats it. Thats a classical computer has a very hard time doing that. So when you take two very large prime numbers, can you multiply them together? You know that that product isnt it isnt immediately calculable to figure out what that that that that what the factors are that go inside of it. Now it turns out the doctor Peter Shor it is you know, what? Quantum Computing a guru now she came up with an algorithm that uses Quantum interference. So its just like the interferometer to remember like the Dual slit experiment and stuff like that. Perhaps. Okay, so she basically sets up these slits on these cubits if you will, you know by analogy and using the patterns of interference, you can find a factor of this very large number and so thats how that thats kind of the the secret sauce behind behind that algorithm. And so Things like that are lent themselves very well to Quantum Computing and its in so thats kind of how how how it works. Makes makes sense into kind of distill this down in my own words. Dont let me know how far off the reservation I am here. But what I think I heard you say it was one key construct of quantum Computing a different than traditional or classical Computing is the replacement of the the bit with a cubit set up a 1 or 0. Now, youve got something that can represent more than one or zero, but many many states the second that I heard was centered around approaches and algorithms to manipulate those cubits, which we dont necessarily have a whole lot in the 1 or 0 because of Simplicity of it but really kind of that, you know that nudging that you had mentioned of those two bits to get the result that you want. And so theres many different algorithmic approaches to that. And in the third, which I think you touched on slightly was more around the infrastructure side of the house. So there are a set of approaches that are very very different with Quantum Computing than with traditional classical Computing namely being, you know, you have to have you do extremely low temperatures, you know, virtually no interference whatsoever in a very very controlled environment versus, you know, you know, we got our handy demo devices here at the ready, you know in like, you know these devices here, you know, I dont have to worry about you recreating space like environments for it to do its job. Jaja I think of an Ender depending on the depending on the the the environment you can also have some some qubits work at room temperature just just kind of a little tidbit there, but I think the other the other piece that that we want to keep in mind is the diff a crucial difference between cubits and classical bits. And that is if I have an classical bits and Im sorry in Cube to hold the same information. I need to to the end. classical bits Okay. So so few you think about it and you bought that died exponential growth, you know so far. Ive got four cubits. I need June 4th or 16 classical Betts. But if I go from 4 cubits to five cubits instead of 16 classical bits, I need 32 and 64 in 128 in and it goes It goes up from there. So when you have something around two hundred and fifty cubits, all right thats going to be more information than you can store in class in enough. Classical bits that that would equal the number of particles in the known universe. Wow, so so oh, yeah, so thats the attraction of quantum Computing. I mean if if if we can work around all of these little crazy since youre kind of constituent parts to get their feet the computational capability is just its just mine point and then so thats why theres so many companies and and you know, so many academic institutions are working towards trying different approaches to have a cubit that can be stable and that wont deeco here right as we say and in other words if your Quantum particle that your Cuba gets touched by a cosmic ray that essentially measures at once you measure the cube it its in that state right? Its its your youre stuck in that state and you kind of have to start over and so thats thats where the Notions around error correction and having many many physical cubits in order to make a logical Cubit and you know those sorts of considerations come into play and thats why you a number of the solutions require what they call a dilution refrigerator or they need to they need to be able to cool the environment. Thats cubits are. I did two almost absolute zero two Make sure that theres no theres no interference from outside to to disturb the Cubit because I think again it was Einstein who said something like do you mean to tell me that if I Mouse look sideways at my Quantum particle, its its being measured right and and so the other and there are all sorts of different really interesting paradoxical experiments. You can do based on how this measurement how does measurement stuff works. And and so I guess you have to be very careful that youre cubits that you dont accidentally measure your Cupids right now speaking of paradoxal situations and you know pulling from cheesy 80s references of you know, Doc Brown from Back to the Future, you know, we here lots of Kind of wild theories around what Quantum Computing can do or or you know, its essentially, you know statements of what can be done. You know, when the latest was around time travel using Quantum, which ultimately it was a it was a play on words really not the way we think about time travel. So youre given some of these things. You know, I think whats just as important as what it is, it would be also good to hear what isnt Quantum Computing. Right? Right. I think Quantum Computing isnt something you can use on a lot of data. Okay, because the it its difficult to get to cat data into this into this quantum. Computer Quantum, you know Quantum system. Youre not going to be able to learn an algorithm over terabytes of data right now, you know, if you have those still sorts of things, its a Quantum Computing just isnt a suited for the other I think the other kind of elements of hype in kind of clickbait kind of things that that happen are are just kind of exaggerations of things that might that that theres that theres kind of a kernel of truth behind but someones kind of gotten a hold of him and twisted just a little bit to get you no more. You dont click sir more analyze on on their articles and so you yeah, you have to be a little bit careful of that. Yeah, and I know it when I was at Garner there was a lot of that in a lot of false claims on you know, who is doing Quantum and who isnt and there, you know are definitely claims out in the Press. Where do they say? Well were doing Quantum right now. Well, yes, but youre doing Quantum simulation on classical Computing hardware. And so, you know you typically, you know, thats usually referred to as Quantum annealing and you got all these different kind of flavors of quantum Quantum Computing, I guess in your mind. Do you see the same thing and you know, what a different types of things that you see in the wild. Yeah, I know. Thats thats a thats a great question. I think first of all one place at that you can get started with Quantum Computing right now is what we call Quantum inspired optimization, you know, Id at least at Microsoft and there are other other vendors other folks you offer solvers that run-in, you know, like at PGA field programmable gate array configurations in in the very first commercial public clouds right now and knows those solvers can work better than traditional solvers because they tend not to get stuck in local Minima. So so if your your cost function is very gnarly at has a lot of you little valleys and things in it. Youre trying to find the lowest cost in there a Quantum Inspire technique to help you not get stuck in in what the the some of the traditional solvers might get stuck yet. And so that that whole quantumcyte inspired space is something you can do right now Microsoft in in collaboration with Case Western Reserve right there and in Cleveland has developed a Quantum inspired algorithm that can help with MRI signals and end the key the key to that is you can either get a few late like a two or three times Improvement in the accuracy of the MRI if youre willing to to sit in the tube for as as you know, as long as the normal MRI techs, but when you have children, especially Child Care cancer patients Unfortunately, they there squirming around in that tube and you either have to sedate them or you can use this technique and they dont have to be in the tube Islam and youll still get an accurate reading it so I mean some of those kind of you know ideas are are are just Fantastic Four for what for what you could do with the technology right? Now. The other thing thats interesting is those Quantum inspired algorithms are guaranteed proof. We proved it a quadratic Quantum speed up when you actually run that on Quantum Hardware, so its kind of a its little bit of a future-proof for a little bit of the the ideal. If you remember the ideal behind some languages like Java and in C sharp, right right them once and then run them anywhere at the the JV ever. Net rocks, so Those those things are are you know, what an active development right now and then in a sure there is a Quantum inspired optimization service thats in private preview and it will roll into public preview relatively. So so that those those things are coming in and you can do them. You can do them right now and then When it comes to actual Quantum Hardware, theres a company right now called Chicago Quantum thats using a d-wave annealing annealing machine. So well talk about those in the second, but theyre theyre using it for valuation of stock portfolio UPS. So certain areas where you can realize a very good material gain in exchange for you know, the investment you see people using using Quantum actual Quantum Hardware now and then The the the T wave I am in those. Family of quantum computers is a a Quantum annealing system idiots. They have cubits and They dare but theyre more of an analog kind of computer. They have the annealing or the or the optimization algorithm built into the hardware. And so it is kind of a purpose-built system. And the way that you you solve problems as you would chop them into this annealing framework so that thus that the d-wave can can solve the solve the problem for you. So its its a little bit its a little bit different. Whereas other other companies making what they call gate based quantum computers like Honeywell or Ion 2 or Microsoft IBM Google those quantum computers are all based on having cubits and these gate Step. We talked about these Quantum operations and so on. Those are those are more general-purpose quantum computers in another term Forecastle here is misc which is near term Intermediate by side Boise intermediate stage cubits, and and those are cubits that are more fragile and less stable but you use algorithms that that can either get you a proximation very quickly or you use a lot of cubits and error correction to kind of help compensate compensate for that. So theyre theres a new paper out. About saying saying that this new this new algorithm was developed that should be able to break RSA encryption as it exists. Now, Im in state-of-the-art RSA encryption with a million noisy cubits. So when when we get to the point where where weve got a million of these discs cubits that that could happen and so projections right now or that can happen within the next 10 years or so folks who have information that they want to keep protected for 10 years, and I need to start looking at post Quantum options. And and there are those those being developed by Like the National Institute of Standards and technology is is evaluating a series of of algorithms. Microsoft has a couple that are that are progressing through those two certification stages. So some of those considerations are are are definitely upon us. So kind of zero in on a couple of those, you know, youd mentioned the general anxiety in the market place around Quantum around saying hey, you know all my encryption everywhere is potentially vulnerable how realistic you think by the time general-purpose Quantum Computing is available. Do you think were going to have or even if we will have that sort of scenario when were already creating Quantum prove algorithms. What are your thoughts on that? How do I sync the word at least in at least in this case? I think were were going to have another kind of Y2K over this meeting that there was enough hyper Leon enough anxiety and concern early on about airplanes falling out of the sky. Is it a win 88 in year 2000. Everybody got their stuff together and and you know found all of those two digit years and Patch them, you know, right so I think I think the the encryption did, you know that the areas of our industry that you use encryption and and and support and development stuff. I think are are making great progress in and I think were going to be in in good shape. So I think thats something that we dont we dont have to worry about and and I think just different. different companies in different situations should should evaluate those things and evaluate the Katakana, I guess the the shelf life of some of the information they exchanged over, you know, encrypted channels over the public in or not and you know what, you know start to start to switch over. I dont want to go back, you know, and for those that remember that that time. But I do not want to go back to the world of going through COBOL copybook and in line to Fortran code that defined, you know, you know these little monotonous, you know bad ways of coating dates, you know, I sure hope we got to go back to anything like that but its also as weve been talking weve been talking about these, you know, the time Horizon win. This could be upon us, you know, I know this could be just a wild guess on your part and theres theres lots of variables at play. But you know when you think about general purpose Computing are you thinking that this is a couple years away are you thinking this is 5 to 10 years away. Do you think this is 30 years away? You know, what? What kind of horizon do you look at this being available from a general purpose? Yeah, I just put you on the spot. I want to be I want to be super careful because I I definitely dont want to put any more pressure on my colleagues right like that are working on the top of logical Cubit for Microsoft. Right? So the first thing we have to keep in mind here is that that this kind of quantum computation is its science. Were still were still developing. I mean chart Charlie Marcus one of the one of the East an experimental physicist. Mm and one of the leaders in in Microsoft Quantum that 150 years of the most ridiculously accurate scientific theory in human history proves that we will have a quantum computer generated in and I definitely, you know agree with him on that and the trick is to trick is when and when and how right and end so my I I I really from like especially from a Microsoft perspective giving dates on on when this stuff going to be available or when we think itll be available is way above my pay grade. So the thing though is I am Im encouraged and in folks can go and read the public peer-reviewed research that Microsoft is done around topological Quantum Computing in and you can read through there and I see a whole bunch of really encouraging developments and then if you listen to the folks at a Thai on Q, right they next quarter. So so quarter one 2021 Inq is talking about having a 32-bit quantum computer available in Azure. Thats 99.9% stable. So that will give them a Quantum Quantum volume of about 4 million. And right now, you know that the quantum volume that other folks youre having their quantum computers right now is going to win the South or hundreds so that the other thing that the CEO of Vaya que says and hes probably looking for more funding to write but he says that they can they can feasibly double the number of cubits that they support every 18 months for the next few years at least so going from 32 to 64 to 128 to 256 somewhere around in their right you get to that that that magic 250-260 number where you have a computer this more powerful than anything we could conceivably build, you know as a classical computer and so those things Those things are you know, just a few years. Away, so Im Im encouraged by by all of that. And I think there is theres plenty for folks to wait to get busy on now, you know, so so and I think one other Announcement that that Microsoft has recently made us around this Quantum intermediate representation or Q IR. Its basically. Fusion analogy Quantum byte code so so any in any of the the quantum Computing Hardware thats running an Azure right now will will support Qi are eventually and so on one side hour. Compiler makers and Quantum language makers and everything have a format. They can Target that will run on all sorts of quantum hardware. And then on the other side que IR gives you the opportunity and then they just announced this at the the supercomputing conference thats going on literally right now is that que? IR will let you run supercomputers side-by-side with quantum computer so out and so we have CPUs, right and we have gpus the graphics processing units for for a lot of you know, math operations. Now, we can have QP use quantum processing units that the super computers can call a Quantum subroutine to get something done that Quantum is really good at and then get the answer back and so Those kind of hybrid systems are are are just around the corner too. So I think theres theres a lot of people can jump into jump into right now and course I encourage them to do it, right and you know, I want to go back to theres theres a few things that you had brought up that I think pool together a Common Thread and that Common Thread is there many different ways of achieving Quantum Computing many different vendors, youd mentioned d-wave youd mentioned IBM and in others they each have their own way of approaching us and you would mention Microsoft sway which is you know, topological but others dont necessarily follow that and I guess, you know trying to stay away from a marketing toy. Patch but more from the perspective of these are your views and doesnt represent your employer statement, which I was waiting for you to say but you didnt so Ill just throw that out there into the universe. Yes. I should have said that out there now, but the Space Race to get to this in state, which is we got to land on Mars or we got to get to a general-purpose Quantum Computing and I guess for you as someone that you know deep into the space, you know, what are the pros and cons of some of these approaches? What are some of the pitfalls of some of these approaches it be good to kind of get that landscape of all these different approaches and why one is better versus, you know, worse are or what are the trade-offs that youre that youre going to make because obviously these these big companies like Microsoft we got tons of really smart. Theres a reason why theyre doing it that way. So be good from your perspective to understand. What are these different approaches that these vendors are using and why are they using those and what are some of the trade-offs? Yeah, I think first of all we could we could take a step back and I can keep my Microsoft hat on and I and I can I can do a little Shameless pitch for cloud-based Quantum Computing, right? Is that is that in Azure, there are three different Quantum Hardware vendors right now soon to be a 4th and and you can try your algorithm on all of them and so in some ways a space race just like our our Boone shot right gave the integrated circuits gave us MRIs gave us all kinds of these great benefits that whether we actually made it to the moon or not weird. I think were much better off. As a human civilization so having all of these different kinds of Hardware accessible to you in in a in in the cloud is is is a win for everybody. So thats thats kind of thats first now I can take my Microsoft hat off and just kind of kind of talked about some of the other thing our shareholders appreciate you doing that Irish are older to put that out there to probably So with the the ion trap quantum computer or trapped ion quantum computers on some of those can run at room temperature so they dont take as much energy to operate. So so thats a good thing and they they use you said and I on right act a Charged particle in a trapped in a magnetic field 222 make their cubits and the pros of that are you dont necessarily need a dilution refrigerator and the like a company like Honeywell whos been making control systems for a hundred years now takes all of that knowledge and uses it to control cubits. And so Theres a theres a really kind of kind of neat idea here that you you play to your strengths. Right? So so that particular, you know that the Trap tie on computers advantages the trick is when you go to entangle those cubits k the Trap Thai on computers work a lot better if the cubits are separated and then and thats so then you kind of have to have a little light Junction to to allow them to be entangled through and theres theres theres a lot behind that. But basically it it makes it harder to scale I think it and so and I know that the the scientist that Honeywell in the scientists at ion QR You know looking at ways to to make those make those things work better, but that that that thats kind of the pro and con. Theyre one of the things about the topological Quantum bits that that Microsoft has. Personally, its just really attractive to me because I was really interested. Not and braids Siri. I even in college you do an in math in college. So this is basically a similar a similar sort of thing. You you take cubits. And in order to pass them through a gate you just change their position. So its its the least these particles. Some of them are what they called non-abelian meaning that theyre not commutative meaning that if you change the order of them, it makes a difference. So topological Quantum bits are harder to Eco here there more stable the Siri tells us that they could be three orders of magnitude more stable than then That available cubits right now. So that means that those Cubans could live for seconds instead of a thousandth of a second, you know, which is which is a significant difference as well is the error rate is a vital component of all of us and maybe if I understand you correctly is one of the core reasons for going down this path is the error rates are much much lower the seat. You can actually get some Computing out of this for longer than a you know, ya 1/10 * 1 ten thousands of a second like you mentioned exactly and and it means that you need fewer. Physical cubits to make a really stable error corrected logical cubed. So so thats the other the other thing I think is is we we look at these different vendors or a folks are kind of scratch their heads about about you. What you know what which of these claims are are are real and not you can look at how many? Physical cubits to they need to actually make a logical Cubit right? And and how does that how does that error correction work? And so I think thats yeah, youre youre absolutely right there that the topological Cubit is intended to be much more much more stable and its its a and as you moved to scale topological cuvettes then and then I think you know youve got You have a different set of problems. Then folks like IBM and Google and lets see others are those those folks are are implementing their their cubits in silica. And and in in the topological qubit, its its a its a nanowire. Its actually a wire you grow in a vacuum a molecule at a time. So its only a molecule wide wire that you that you use for four topological. But at least Microsoft topological keep it right so the the the silicon-based Qubits are more susceptible to noise and less stable. But the idea is that since we already know how to mass-produce silica gel that they may be able to get to scale faster because they can produce a lot of these silica-based Cubit chips and then use error correction. You not to take care of it and Microsofts secret weapon in that in that area is is a not-so-secret weapon. His name is Doug carmean. I used to Father of the Pentium processor and he has come to Microsoft to help with the manufacturer ability of topological cubits. So I think that I mean thats just a nice piece of public information right that . That gives you a sense for the confidence that that Microsoft is a company has that there are engaging a bunch of different folks. If you go even go look at at Microsoft careers website and see where theyre see where theyre hiring folks. Are there hiring folks in in yaqui Indian in areas of mass producing these things so that theres no its its kind of these different pros and cons and I think the best thing is that each of these companies is bringing their own unique sauce, right? Whether its Ivy young Moritz Google Arts D way for its Eye On Cue or its Honeywell there each bringing a certain expertise in a certain perspective. And so I think I feel We can end up with with quite a number of you know, released able assistance over time. So that thats a very positive thing. I agree and you know, Ive often referred to whenever Ive been asked about some of these other approaches, I guess maybe Im not as as friendly about by often times of refer to it as the shotgun approach which is you know, throw a bunch out there than not very stable, but will try to fix it on the back end as best as possible. And you know with the topological approach is more of a pure architectural purest type of you is lets do it right the first time lets not worry about kind of fixing it later Downstream, but you know, I want to shift from Cannabis science. And and what is quantum to what a lot of people are probably thinking which is Weather sounds really cool. We should probably get on top of this. But often times. Its a question of where do we apply this in our business? And Im sure a lot of folks listening are listening to my former colleagues at Gartner and IDC. And in the news excetera where they hear statements, you know, like these by 2025 the the compound growth rate of quantum Computing Solutions is going to be over 50% or you know, when Quantum Computing is generally available. Itll be a 10 billion dollar market, you know, those are big numbers but as weve talked about Quantum isnt for everything. I may be for everyone but may not be for every sort of work glad that that you have a problem to solve for. So I guess in your mind, what are some of the ideal business applications for Quantum Computing probably the simplest way to think about it is when when youre doing Computing, right you have inputs you have processing and you have outputs, right? So for Quantum Computing you you like to have small inputs and small outputs, but very very very complex process. So factoring large numbers is you know, it is a simple example write your youre given a number and then theres a ton of computation behind How you how you factor it another set of great examples in ones that are really topical for right now are around simulating chemical processes. Right nature is quantum, right and so quantum computers are great at simulating. Processes that happened in nature. So carbon fixation is one that that is is a great application. In other words pulling carbon out of the atmosphere. How do we how do we develop catalysts that can take carbon and turn it into something that that you know, itll drop out of the atmosphere in and we can we can attack you know that carbon in in in the atmosphere right now. So theres theres that application another application that that is I think you know, very near-term. Is nitrogen fixation so using a lot less energy to produce fertilizer to help feed everybody, you know, so its so thats another one if it takes something like 6% of the worlds natural gas to produce fertilizer, you know, just because the way we produce fertilizer is humans is very high temperature very high pressure takes a lot of energy on the darn soybeans you plant them in and they they put nitrogen back into the soil. Well, theyre not theyre not using natural gas. What are they doing? Well comes to you know, figuring that out you you need a quantum computer. So so folks who are doing things in Materials Science are superconductors are another one but one that applies to just about everybody is optimization. Right, if you want to make your supply chain better, you want to make your manufacturing for better. Do you want to make your distribution that work better? Do you want to make your workflow in your corporate office better? All of those kind of optimization things Quantum is very good at and and you can you can use the quantum inspired stuff now and you can develop your you know, you dont Quantum algorithms around optimization. And then so thats a great thats a great use case that they just about everybody has right yet. If I hear you correctly what youre saying is if you got, you know, a controlled set of data not a huge huge amount of data, were talking about, you know a good yo control set of data and you know the problem that youre trying to solve and its complex. Its multi-dimensional you want to run modeling simulations things along those Find a Quantum Computing could be a really good solution for that. I versus classical computing. Correct, correct. And I think the other I think the other thing is, is there a number of companies out there who have been bitten by like the data science thing. They they got a little bit behind in their data science practice and now theyre scrambling to catch up because their competitors are using machine learning and in beating them in certain areas or whatever. And so the the counter to that is to take employees you have now who are passionate about the subject and just give him an environment where they can they can start learning and start preparing for this and so as a company its its a its a reasonable investment in your future wife. So I let thats another kind of kind of way to to to think about it. So you want to grow that capability and then I like what youre saying because it validates a point that I made a long long time ago. Probably maybe 10 years ago. When the Big Data movement was really starting to build up some steam. You know what I would tell people and people looked at me like I had do you know five heads was you know, big data without biginsights is a big problem and what that mean? Okay, so I got a lot of data, but if I cant do anything with it, I might as well not have the data and how much of that data is actually valuable and by collecting all this data and put it into a deal lake or what-have-you. It actually might complicate the issue even more and so what were learning from some of these emerging technology will LOL lot of these emerging Technologies like artificial intelligence. Its all about having really good quality data that you trained excetera likewise with Quantum likewise with blockchain, you know in the list goes on. On and on and on so it kind of comes back to those information Architects. Im sure that theyre super excited right now. They like see I told you guys. I was right all along Architects are kind of curmudgeon e arent they usually so yeah, theyre theyre waiting to focus a little bit on this one. So thats super interesting on the patterns where it makes a whole lot of sense and I guess in a similar theme as we talked about what isnt Quantum Computing applying that to what are are not good scenarios for Quantum Computing Are there specific things that arent arent good for going to give me my first example, you not told people, you know, youll never see this as a quantum computer as an example real or it doesnt really make much sense at least in my mind. It doesnt what do you think are really really bad Quantum Computing applications. Yeah, I I think big data big probably probably stuff. You want. Youre trying to operate over big data at the dead least in the near-term quantum machine learning is a really interesting one. I think I think over time thats going to be a very good use case, but it might not be a good use case right out of the gate. Right right now makes sense with you know, a whole lot of you do poorly organized data isnt really a great application of this so I could imagine things like when we mention supply chain things like digital Twins and you know, yo converting your the data into tokens and running simulations and models around that that that would be super useful use of quantum Computing a bit as people are consuming all this great Knowledge from you cuz youve given us a ton to chew on what would be the one take away that you would like people to impart from this conversation about what youre talking about. Ill be generous you can give him a couple But you know less is more here. It would be something you really want to believe people with. I I think the first one is start now dont dont wait for the the full-scale quantum computers come out because by then itll be too late. And and I think the other thing is you can start now simply by. You dont David developing internal staff who are passionate about the subject and in some some targeted hiring. So its I think thats really the the first thing and and try and experiment and perhaps fail and Edward a little bit here along the way. I love it. And you know and obviously Microsoft is making huge Investments and the developer tooling tip to make that a reality. Its not like you mentioned. So listen to Albert. This is been phenomenal. I really appreciate you taking the time to walk us through this if people want to get ahold of you. Whats the best way for them to get ahold of you? Probably just through Linkedin I think in so just Albert Murphy in in LinkedIn and then probably saved Albert Murphy Quantum and thatll get you right to me. Yeah, I know whenever I tell people go search for Mike Walker on LinkedIn. Good luck. I think Im on page 55 or whatever. It may be but again adelbert super fascinating conversation and looking forward to having you back again. Sometimes it to continue the conversation. Janet Jackson giving update, you know how hopefully well have some more breakthroughs that we can talk about. Yeah, Im sure we will. All right. Thank you. See you next time. All right. Youre welcome.