In this episode, I'm speaking with Stevin Lupien who is both the CEO of BeefChain along with being an adjunct professor at University of Wyoming College of Business where he teaches how to apply Blockchain technologies to complex business problems. Listen in as we are diving into the agriculture industry (specifically the business of beef) and how blockchain can enable, empower, and ultimately save US cattle ranches. It's a fascinating conversation that shows that even technology innovation can have a material impact on a thousands of year old tradition.
In this episode, I'm speaking with Stevin Lupien who is both the CEO of BeefChain along with being an adjunct professor at University of Wyoming College of Business where he teaches how to apply Blockchain technologies to complex business problems. Listen in as we are diving into the agriculture industry (specifically the business of beef) and how blockchain can enable, empower, and ultimately save US cattle ranches. It's a fascinating conversation that shows that even technology innovation can have a material impact on a thousands of year old tradition.
hello everybody and welcome back to
another episode
of the next i am your host mike walker
and today we're going to dive into
innovations in the state of wyoming
you might be asking yourself mike why
wyoming what's up with that
well we're going to be talking with
steven lupion and
he is the ceo of beefchain
a blockchain enabled solution that helps
farmers essentially track and trace
goods to the end supplier and it's going
to provide all sorts of rich benefits
for
uh small businesses to help make them
much more successful keep these
farmers in business which is a very very
critical issue right now
so as you can see we're going to be
talking a lot about uh the business
innovation
that's going to be required to leverage
this technology and with that we're
going to talk about some of the hard
dependencies and this is where wyoming
comes in
where the folks in wyoming are uniquely
positioned
uh with over 20 blockchain laws that
have been passed by the
state legislation to help enable
these types of businesses to build these
types of solutions so we're going to get
into topics
like that we're going to we're going to
talk about all sorts of different stuff
i think it's going to be a good episode
i think you're going to enjoy it
but i don't want to spoil too much now
like always
we're going to provide all the show
notes and links
on our website vnexpod.com
and that link should be right up here
right there um so go there check it out
provide some feedback you can ask to be
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and all that good stuff as well so with
that
um let's just get into it
how are you mike good to see you yeah
likewise i'm so happy that you decided
to uh to join us here and share some of
your insights
um now you're a busy busy guy uh you're
involved in
lots of different activities uh both
from
you know uh running a business being uh
integrated into the university structure
helping to create standards for things
like blockchain
but you know i don't want to steal too
much of your thunder uh you know
steven maybe if you could help uh walk
us through you know tell us a little bit
more about you
what your current role is or or should i
say roles are
uh and uh yeah kind of walk us through
it well i'm i'm i'm currently the
president and ceo
of an agriculture company called bloc
called the beef chain and what we do is
we provide um a usda certification
for ranchers and
we use blockchain as our our
our our method of validating the
information
you know i don't like to say it's a
blockchain company because i think
blockchain we're using blockchain to
solve a very real problem that
ranchers have and but i consider us an
agriculture business
and um and i'm also
presently an adjunct professor at the
university of wyoming
where i'm uh teaching uh blockchain
as part of the college of business and
i am also working with the university
we'll we'll probably have a
big announcement in the next week or two
so i'll i'll i'll certainly
might let you know when that
announcement is ready um but um
we are in the process of standing up a
center of excellence
at the university of wyoming and because
wyoming has done so many unique things
in this space
uh the university absolutely sees that
there's an opportunity
for the university to further uh what
the state legislature has been
has been doing so it's it's um it's been
a busy time
in in wyoming in this space and it's
it's just been
such an honor and been so exciting to to
be a part of it
wow yeah that sounds like a lot and um
you know but the first obvious question
that i have for you
um though is you know with with your
company beef chain
uh is the overall mission statement to
really help people find uh where's the
beef
in a way um and keep in mind that was a
cheesy
80s commercial reference for those that
don't know
so you'll find that uh yeah i'm going to
go back in the memory banks a little bit
here
calling calling calling you know calling
where's the beef and then referring it
to this cheesy i think is kind of a pun
within a pond
right and um we just broke down some
walls here
[Laughter]
you know what the mission the mission of
beefchain
um is really we want to connect
the rancher um to the consumer as much
as we possibly can
and and in doing so
you know and with working with ranchers
on this on this project
the one thing we've really learned is
that intermediaries
have really taken um a lot of the power
and quite honestly the profit uh um out
of the ranching business
um you know the cost of beef has
steadily gone up for us as consumers
over the last
20 years but the price per pound that
ranchers have
are being paid is essentially unchanged
there are a number of articles um that i
encourage people to go out and google
you know google beef prices and and
and you know you'll you'll see there's a
lot going on right now in particular and
that's purely coincidental
that you know ranchers are kind of
reaching a point where they're saying
enough we can't we can't keep being the
one that
that bear the brunt of this so so what
beefchain does
is really two things one is
we are the first company
uh certified under the usda's pvp
program which is a process verified
program
um that is using blockchain as the
uh as the the the the proof vehicle
um most of the other or essentially all
the other um
pvp providers are using either simple
databases which we all know the
challenges with that
or quite frankly some of them are just
using ledgers you know handwritten
handwritten ledgers right so we saw an
opportunity
um to um to to use blockchain
for a very particular purpose and that
is to
to verify that you know that the
ranchers are actually being paid
for what they're claiming um that
they're that their product is
and you know under the usda pvp program
there are
you know hormone-free programs there's
grass-fed programs there's a program
called
you know wyoming plus which is specific
to ranchers in in wyoming
and ranchers who can can prove
that they're um raising their product
under these
standards do and should
uh get a a better price at the sale barn
and and that's really what it's about
how do how do ranchers who put more time
and effort
into creating a safer and a more quality
product
how do they get the benefit of that and
one of the challenges we
we saw was that um in
virtually all cases no matter how the
product is raised
when it goes to the sale barn it's
almost sold like a commodity
and you know all the all the effort that
you know ranchers put in
kind of gets lost in the in the sale
barn process
so that was one thing we did the other
thing that
um that we're working on and we're doing
that in in cooperation
with a company called iohk and um
io hk um you know has a has a chain
that that we're using and and they've
been absolutely wonderful in working
with us
we want to also connect consumers
directly to ranchers we believe that in
this day and age in particular
people want to know where their food
comes from
people want to know you know that
they're that their food is
safe you know they want to know how
their how their food is raised
and and and i think wyoming ranchers
in particular um have a story to tell
you know these are many cases are
multi-generational ranches
and you know these are people that have
that that you know i
i think when consumers see you know
who raised their product where their
product was raised
you know that awareness is only going to
help both the rancher and the consumer
so those are the two things that we're
doing um at beefchain right now
wow and so oftentimes whenever we talk
about these types of solutions
you know we oftentimes focus just on the
technology
and how great you know blockchain is or
some
other type of technology that's enabling
it and what i really really like about
your response is that you said look
there's some very real business problems
here
you know we've got uh you know ranchers
that are
being disenfranchised um you know
there's you know the supply chain
doesn't uh have
uh spread the wealth uh uh more
democratically
and you know what what you're helping to
solve is you know helping
frankly keep these folks in business um
and so it's
it's actually solving a very very real
problem but also
another thing that i think is really
cool that you highlighted on
is the fact that consumer privacy or not
privacy consumer trust
has dwindled away over the years
in kind of how food is labeled because
it is a bit of a mystery to the average
consumer at the average grocery store
and looking at a label and going
what the heck does this mean and can i
even trust this label
because there's so many different
permutations and exceptions etc
and what you're doing is you're saying
look why do we need
uh to have this kind of barrier between
the consumer
and where their food comes from let's
break that down and let's
allow the consumer to actually directly
tap in and
and i don't know what technology used
but let's just say a qr code or a
barcode
scan it on their phone and then be able
to see oh yeah this came from
joe's ranch in cheyenne wyoming
um you know he's got a five-star rating
and you know here's his history uh click
on this you can go to the website
you can see their process on how they
handle meat uh
why they're certified how they become
certified
maybe visit the ranch if you really want
to
you know that part's really really
fascinating and cool to me because
it's material it means something to the
person that's actually using this
technology
am i getting that right or am i way off
no you you you you've really described
our
our business plan almost perfectly you
know we are using qr code
and um in a restaurant setting you know
you can have a
you know a table tent or a qr code on a
on a menu
and you can scan it and you can see
exactly
you know you know where that restaurant
is is getting their product
we can actually show the entire supply
chain you know here is where the
here's where the product began you know
here's when it you know when it was
initially tagged because you know in in
the cattle business you you tag them all
on the
kind of the same day after your you know
all your calves have dropped
and um so there's you know that's when
the tagging begins you can see
you know where the where the you know
the cow has traveled throughout its
its lifespan you know when it was
processed
how it's traveled through uh the supply
chain and when it got to your restaurant
and the same thing obviously with
consumers on a packages
as well too and um because
interestingly there are some products
that i think
consumers have a lot of trust in because
they know a lot about the product
oddly enough most people when they buy
their beef
they go to their grocery store and the
only the only thing they really
choose based on is what it's usda graded
is it prime is it choice or is it select
other than that you virtually know
nothing about the beef product that
you're
you're buying especially if it's a
grocery store brand
um because they put their own you know
publix or red lion or something like
that
you know stick around it and you have
absolutely no idea
you know where where that where that
steak came from
you know um how it was raised um
in many in many food categories organic
means very different things
right and you know and there's really
not a national standard so you may see
you know something on a package that
says organic well what does that mean
you know so i think there's a there's a
real opportunity for
us in the in in in beef in particular
although we have worked with you know um
you know sheep producers
and we can work with you know any any
number of other producers
however we want to concentrate on right
now what we know best
and um but there's a there's a real void
in the in in in our beef supply right
now of really knowing
you know where it came from and how it
was raised and
you know we live in a world where you
know this device should be able to tell
us
you know a lot and and quite honestly
you know
um we're becoming you know um
uh consumers that you know understand
the value of using a cell phone to get
information
and why that hasn't happened yet in the
beef business astonished us
and that was the void that we saw and um
you know that and i i do want to stress
you know we're doing this because you
know we really want to help the ranching
community
most of the owners of my company are
ranchers and
um that's why we started the company and
um you know if if if ranching in the u.s
goes away
you know we've got a we've got a real
challenge with our with our food supply
because
now we'll be bringing bringing in
products from abroad where quite frankly
we'll even have less information
right so um so we we we really want to
make this about the ranching community
and
and that linkage between the ranching
community and the consumer
yeah and isn't you know as far as
uh livestock is concerned you know uh
and again i'm not an expert in this
space uh
isn't you know a lot of the other
animals you know like pigs and such
a lot of that comes from overseas like
you know as
i think pigs especially is china there's
a lot of south american
poultry etc but beef is still largely
you know
insourced for the u.s is that accurate
it it is yeah you're absolutely right
and
um and and interestingly um
you know if the u.s also does a pretty
good job of exporting
um our beef products so you know there's
a real opportunity there for the rest of
the world
um you know there are there are a number
of countries that we've worked with
um uh south korea taiwan
uh and japan where quite frankly the
american story
um helps sell the beef um
you know they you know they they really
do
view wyoming as kind of this mystical
old west place
and you know and and by the way it is i
want to
you know having moved here from new york
city i have to tell you wyoming is an
absolutely magical place but you know
they
they really value that story and um
so the more that we can for for our
ranchers who are exporting products
the more that we can tell that story um
you know
a great example is a relatively famous
ranch that we work with here in wyoming
called the camp stool ranch
it's owned by a gentleman named ogden
driscoll
ogden driscoll is the sixth generation
rancher and there's two more generations
on that ranch right now behind them so
there's eight generations on the camp
stool ranch
the interesting thing about the camp
stool ranch also is
it surrounds the base of devil's tower
so
you know if you can imagine you know you
know there's you know and if you
look on our our beefchain dot
io website you'll see a lot of pictures
um
around camp stool ranch and i get people
all the time
saying to me well you photoshop that
you're clearly took
a wyoming landmark and you're putting
cows in front of it and you you just
photoshopped that and i'm like
no no we didn't that is
that is the driscoll ranch this is when
i go to work every day
right can you imagine that you know
well i tell you you're making me really
jealous but you know what
you know we're all remote now and you
know we don't have to go into any office
i was a remote worker anyways
heck maybe i should be looking at a
relocation to wyoming at this point
sounds like the best place to be
isolated
okay that's all i've got the only advice
i'll give you of being a new transplant
is
bring a very heavy coat when you visit
wyoming
um no it's um uh that that part of the
state in particular which is the
the northeastern um part of the state
is truly a beautiful place and
it is um it is um you know
sparsely populated and you know
relatively untouched and
if you have an opportunity to visit that
part of the state uh certainly you know
visit the
camp stool ranch but um it is uh it is
truly a beautiful uh beautiful part of
the state
and other than the uh other than the um
50 weeks of winter uh it is a i'm
kidding guys up there i'm kidding
uh it is oh the the the wyoming tourist
department is going to be all over you
for that one
[Laughter]
no it's uh it truly it it truly is and
and i am saying this sincerely uh
you know it is it is a magical place i i
could not be happier with
with my my my move out here to uh to
cheyenne
uh prior to that i was you know you know
living in
you know southern connecticut and
commuting into new york city
and coming out here uh you know you
would think it was a culture shock
but quite frankly um wyoming is its
people
and you know this is a you know this is
just a
a wonderful place with wonderful people
and um so uh i do encourage um
you know anyone who's out in this you
know you know part of the country to
come
to come visit it it's it's truly a
beautiful place
and hopefully we'll have university of
wyoming football games that they can
they can visit but that that's yet to be
seen
yeah yeah well i will definitely see
about that
uh uh frankly i'm not holding my my my
breath too too much
but uh uh you know i guess you know it's
uh uh
what's the phrase uh uh hope for the
best expect the worst or something along
those lines
uh but um so i you know i'm totally
uh groking and really loving what you're
saying about this whole beef chain thing
because
you know i spent some time in texas and
you know
probably like wyoming you know uh the
the texans they they love their beef and
um you know i think that's the thing
about cows yeah right
and i i tell you you know i definitely
picked up
uh the a lot of uh beef habits
uh living in austin texas um you know
i've got
a nice smoker where you know i'm smoking
brisket all the time and
you know all sorts of stuff you know
ribs and all that great stuff but i can
tell you
you know would be interesting to to hear
from you about
in that context is you know there's a
lot more
when it comes to you know these kind of
box
delivery uh you know direct from farm to
consumer type of thing
and would be interesting because you
know i know that i would be all over
because i'm
you know even here locally uh where i'm
at there's a
a few local uh butchers that i'll go to
support the community etc
but also to supplement that uh and throw
in the freezer and what have you
is you know like i think uh butcher box
is what i use
but you know i'll have meat come in and
you know
pop in the freezer and then when i'm
ready to you know have some people over
and
and cook some brisket all day long we
can do that or what have you
but with beef it seems to me
at least at a high level and understand
we didn't you know uh have a
conversation before this about this but
um
it almost would make it easier i think
to be able to enable
more of that to have you know uh
local wyoming ranchers to be able to
take their product and go direct to
consumer and be able to create
like their own type of butcher box or
even have a
network uh like a marketplace that
is all about connecting uh the ranchers
to the consumers what are your thoughts
there
well first of all you know that's the
ultimate goal
the challenge is um there is some
regulatory hurdles
um that uh ranchers uh
face when wanting to do a direct to
consumer
um uh type of program you know there are
usda regulations
about you know where beef can get
processed
and where it gets processed you know has
to be inspected by
the usda and there are certain certainly
costs associated with that
that makes it very very difficult for
small ranchers and individual butchers
to do
large-scale operations because
once they grow beyond a certain point
the usda regulations kick
in and the costs become so prohibitive
that they they simply get they they hit
up they hit a ceiling and they can't
they can't grow past that
um wyoming has taken a little bit of a
step in
and this has nothing to do with the the
blockchain legislation but
wyoming also has something called the
food freedom act
and many states actually regulate
and you have to get a license in order
to produce
certain food products and sell them to
consumers you know and
in many states the amount that you can
sell in value
is relatively low sometimes less than a
thousand dollars so if you have
grandma's great jam recipe and
you want to start grandma's jam recipe
grandma's jam company in your kitchen
in many cases you can't because once you
produce above a certain level then
you fall under a whole different set of
regulations
where where quite frankly you it'll be
cost prohibitive for you to
to to produce it yourself and um wyoming
has actually taken some steps with the
food freedom act
and i would certainly encourage um you
know people to
you know reach out to their legislators
about you know
you know how how food is uh manufactured
and processed in their states because
that is
that is a hurdle and it's a hurdle in
the beef business
and it's it's quite frankly a hurdle in
a lot of businesses
and you know i think um and and quite
frankly what that's caused
is it's caused consolidation among
um the food manufacturing and the
processing
world and not to go back to beef but
it's what i know best
there's really four companies in the us
right now that do all of the beef
processing
and one of them you know a lot of
press has gone out recently because
they've had to shut down because of
coveting infections inside their plants
and it was smithfield
and you know when smithfield's plant
came went down
about 20 percent of the of the meat
processing in the
in the country shut down it's it's that
significant
and so without those smaller producers
or with the and without that that
mid-level
of of processing plants you know you
the incumbents just you know can if
something
happens like what happened with
smithfield you know we could have real
supply chain problems and i still think
we might
down the road and it doesn't look like
covid's burning out as quickly as we
thought it was going to
so what is the impact of that in the
next you know two months
you know six months and a one year is
is still i think um something that we
don't we don't really understand yet so
um so um these these restrictions
on small producers i think um you know
have to be addressed
and you know perhaps covid will help
um you know some of these states look at
some of these
challenges that exist within their
states and allow their producers
um to do what wyoming's done and open up
um you know um for processors to sell
more directly
so i was actually going to ask you that
because you
you know we find that in many different
industries a lot of these
barriers um and and hurdles
to progress and you know frankly very
manual type of processes
a lot of those digital transformations
to automate that have been
accelerated as a result and i wonder you
know kind of what you're talking about
with the processing
if there's technology whether it be
visual technology
iot technology ai technology if there
are things that can be done
to help either offset the amount of
processing that needs to be done
or maybe even eliminate it altogether
what do you think
well you know i think there's not an
industry in the world um that is
is not getting touched by by technology
um you know when i visit ranchers you
know
they're they're sitting on their horses
and they've got their cell phones
you know right and so they're carrying a
computer with them
and you know the way we're building um
um the beef chain um user interface
recognizes that you know you've got
you've got a
a computer and a chip reader you know in
your pocket everywhere you go
so you know rfid and qr codes and things
like that that are very easily
um you know recognized and used by
mobile
devices is right now the way to go and
um you know and we're and we're finding
now that there's
um development on you know ear tags that
are predominantly rfid right now
which has limitations in range and
things like that
we're starting to see um tag
manufacturers out there working with 5g
and that's going to create you know all
you know
whole new um benefits for ranchers
you know it's it's it's kind of funny
and these big ranches
out here in wyoming you know you'll hear
ranchers go yeah i spent two days
looking for a
you know for a for a cow and a calf that
wandered off somewhere and i
i i don't know where they are you know
when you start
when you i mean when you start you know
adding
you know 5g and quite honestly there's
companies out there right now that have
drones that will fly over your ranch and
and you know i identify where your you
know where your animals are
and you know you know boy
what what time savers you know and so
in in our system you know when uh
whenever when a vet comes and and looks
at a looks at an animal
you know they can tap their their their
uh don't have the tap but they just have
to
use their cell phone within proximity of
that animal and it pops up the record on
that animal and they can record exactly
what
you know what they have well you know
that was either not done you know in the
past because
recording that what value would that
bring but more importantly it was so
laborious that
ranchers just wouldn't do it and even if
they did do it you know it was a it was
a paper process and
you know would never get to that
information would never get to where it
needed to be
when now you know you can scan a package
of beef
you know theoretically in your pack in
your grocery store
and see all that data you know you don't
want to give too much data because
too much data is i think is also
distracting but um
but that can now be used or borderline
creepy uh you know we don't want to know
the name of the cow
uh as an example we actually joke about
that quite you know quite a bit once you
once you name something it's a pet it's
no longer
[Laughter]
it's no longer grocery store aisle
eligible
[Laughter]
but but you know it's it's you know
data it's surprising how data can be
used beneficially it's also surprising
how data can be used inappropriately
right but but um you know you know
ranchers can now make
um you know real decisions um
you know about um about how they operate
their ranches
um and that could you know bring them
greater um
greater value i'll give you a perfect
case in point
this doesn't exist yet but it's very
close
is right now um the way grading
you know choice you know um select and
prime is done
is actually after the the beef is
processed
so the the um the processor gets the
benefit of that
not the rancher and so you're not you're
when you sell a cow
you theoretically don't know how it's
going to going to grade
and however if you start collecting data
and you start seeing that you know this
ranch
produces more prime than another ranch
does
okay well that's information that could
help that rancher and more importantly
that rancher could almost go down to
well
this bull in this cow in combination
creates more prime and you can start
dealing with
you can do ranch management decisions
that before
simply didn't exist because of this data
and
as a result you can produce better
product
you know theoretically more prime might
would be better product and
you know if if the rancher can prove
that
their supply produces
you know a higher percentage of prime
why shouldn't they benefit in that too
and that's kind of what we're trying to
that's where we want to get the power
back to the rancher
and um and i and and and that's the
value that
information can really provide that
historically
was simply just lost you know you
soldier you sold your your animal at the
sale barn
from that point on you had no idea what
you know you know what
where your product went in the
marketplace how it was graded you you
you
and and frankly you didn't care because
you didn't benefit from it
but it but if you know you're going to
get 10 15 20 cents more per pound
you're going to make different decisions
yeah that's a big deal um and
and i think that's valuable yeah yeah
totally and
uh you know like you said i mean a lot
of these
are kind of small mom and pop type of
operations
and while the big corporation might not
think that that's a big deal but for
these folks
it is very much a big deal and you know
having this technology at their disposal
further offloads things that they would
have to do manually
which means they got more time to either
make better quality products
or be able to have more volume or
inventory
so i mean it definitely has a material
impact
and so with with beef chain i get the
kind of the track and trace aspect of it
of okay
we're collecting the data it's enough
it's it's uh
written to a data storage technology
that makes it tamper resistant uh
it's transparent and visible to uh most
if not everybody
uh there's probably kind of a built-in
kind of firewalling of permissioning
that happens
to be part of this network type of thing
um
so outside of kind of a track and trace
type of perspective
uh what other capabilities are you uh
directly creating
as part of uh beef chain
well um another challenge
that we believe um our system can help
is the way the ranching community works
right now
is it they essentially get paid at one
point in time during the year and they
have to survive on that money
until that point in time the next year
uh it's it's a very real problem
in both ranching and farming you know
you sell your crop you've sold your crop
and um and so what ends up happening is
ranchers and farmers typically take some
sort of a bridge loan
or you know or some sort of loan that
carries them through
until the the next time that they you
know get revenue and they can pay off
the loan and
and the challenge exists is
they don't control what they can sell
their product for that you know at that
end point
and many times their revenue
is less than you know what their loan
amounts are
so they end up you know carrying loans
year after year after year
and find themselves you know
significantly in debt right
um you know one of the real challenges
with with both ranching and farming
is these people tend to be you know very
land rich
but you know but but cash poor because
the way that it operates and you know
you don't want to start selling off
acreage of your
uh of your ranch so so um a pro
a problem that we think we can also
solve
through this new technology is if we can
tokenize
herds and allow ranchers
to be able to sell the tokens um
you know in advance you know and and
deliver their product in the fall um
against that token
then we may be able to cut out that
aspect
of of of the business as well too and
and they may you know they they may not
have to take out a loan or
as significant amount of a loan and
leave themselves considerably less
exposed so i think
you know blockchain technology in
particular
um has so many benefits because of you
know what you've list before the
immutability the transparency the
distributed nature of it the encryption
everything that makes blockchain
valuable um you can now use that
technology
to solve other problems besides the the
track and trace
and you mentioned uh earlier um in a
question about ai
you know once you apply ai to all of
this information
as well too you know you you are you
know
you're you're going to be able to um
vastly improve a really outdated system
you know the system of ranching and
selling it to a back ender or a feedlot
and then going to a
a processor and then a processor to a
distributor etc
you know that that system has been in
place for over 100 years
you know um you know how can that system
be improved
so that one our constituents the
ranchers
um you know um you know benefit more
um certainly um our our next most
important
stakeholder would be the consumers you
know and
so how can we use now that we're
collecting all this data
you know what other problems can this
this data
be used to solve and that's kind of our
mission at beefchain
is is to keep looking at the
various problems that ranchers have and
see how technology doesn't have to be
you know blockchain although you know
i'm a you know a huge proponent of it
um but how can how can we
solve those problems for for our
ranchers because
we believe happy ranchers create happy
consumers because
it's you know it is a you know it's a
better
safer better tasting product and that's
our goal so we're
we're constantly looking exactly at you
know what you're
what you just asked which is what's next
you know
track and trace we got it you know our
usda certification
we're there we got it you know what's
next
and um and i think you know every
technology company should be looking at
that
you know what what how what what what do
you do next with the technology that
you've built
um if you don't innovate you stagnate
and you die
i'll totally and so so you know we've
been talking
a lot about wyoming and so what i
want to understand uh also is so when we
talk about beef chain
is beef chain uh just for
wyoming ranchers and customers or is
this national
international um kind of what's the
scope of beefchain
uh now and potentially in the future
it is intern it is both national and
international
um we started out and um
and you know because our our owners are
wyoming ranchers
you know we we started out there and and
and they're kind of our
you know our home base but you know we
we have worked with um you know the
nebraska association you know we have
worked them with associations in texas
um um a sheep product that we worked on
it was was part of the canadian cheap
federation they're great people up there
and as i mentioned you know we we've
exported
um on product to you know several
countries
and our technology we are working with
um companies and governments in other
parts of the world
that want to use our technology
to help them in in their countries or
among their associations
so so really no we are not limited to uh
to wyoming
we started in wyoming really because
wyoming
is fairly unique place in the in the
blockchain world
and it might be um it it it
might help the um the viewers to
understand some unique things that
wyoming has done
um in the past three years wyoming has
passed
about 20 bills around
blockchain um distributed finance
uh and cryptocurrency in particular
and wyoming has really set itself um
apart um from really any other
jurisdiction
arguably in the world with what wyoming
has done
and and and this isn't unique you know i
know
a a lot of your viewers may go wyoming
why why why why wyoming wyoming is a
pretty unique place
you know wyoming gave women the right to
vote
50 years before anywhere else in the u.s
could vote
um wyoming created the
a whole concept of the llc in 1974. we
are the first state to do that
you know we are the first date with a
woman governor we are the
first state with uh um with um a female
supreme court justice i mean wyoming is
known
for firsts and
um this is a a state whose ethos is
rugged individualism
and and so it should be no surprise
that um when a problem was presented to
the wyoming legislature and essentially
what that problem was
was it all started when um someone
relatively
um well known in the cryptocurrency
space a woman by the name of caitlyn
long
um tried to donate bitcoin
um to endow us a scholarship for female
engineers at her alma mater
university of wyoming and at the time
wyoming had a money transmitter law that
was very poorly written
money transmitter laws are designed for
like the western union type
companies and the law was written around
if you deposit money
at western union then you the western
union has to hold your money in reserve
until they deliver it somewhere else
well the way the law was written it
captured cryptocurrency companies
in a very negative way and all of the
cryptocurrency companies pulled out of
wyoming
a number of years ago and that wasn't
the intention of wyoming's law
but it just it just captured it and um
caitlyn um basically um
said you know what i'm gonna see if
there's a way we can fix this
and she ended up um getting in contact
with
a very innovative legislator uh at the
university
excuse me in wyoming named tyler
lindholm uh tyler is the um
uh majority whip uh young guy um navy
vet
you know um you know kind of a
libertarian so he kind of
was a cryptocurrency guy and and he went
ah
great we're gonna we're gonna run with
this bill and we're gonna fix
the we're gonna fix this limitation so
that it would bring the cryptocurrency
um companies back in and that was the
very first
bill um that they ran and if i recall
that passed unanimously
in both houses so it was pretty amazing
but to the credit of tyler lindholm
in the wyoming legislature they said
you know what what more could we do with
this you know
i mean okay we fixed that problem but
you know
what more can we do and over time
um a number of us got involved and
something was created called the wyoming
blockchain coalition
which is a you know a group of
like-minded people that just volunteered
their time to
to work with the legislature to help you
know
identify things that that that that um
the state could do
and um to the credit of the state
and to the credit of at the time
governor meade
um the governor actually created
a standing task force around blockchain
and one of the first states to do that
and this state
this task force which was made up of
both legislators
and experts um now caitlin was actually
named to that
to that to that committee
they they they just said okay what can
we do around this space
where can we do economic development
where can we you know um
where can we remove hurdles for
businesses you know like um you know
blockchain businesses
um where can we solve problems like um
and i experienced this at beefchain and
i also experienced it in a trade
association that i i ran
in this space as well too where it was
very difficult for me to get a bank
account
and i couldn't get the bank account
because you know
the uh the fdic considered
cryptocurrency and digital assets to be
in kind of an
at-risk industry although it's
completely legal right they
they they essentially told member banks
of the fdic um you know if you bank this
industry we're going to put you under
enhanced scrutiny
um by the way if a regulator ever says
you're
going to be under enhanced scrutiny it's
a bad thing
so so you know that's like the iars
saying yeah we're just going to do a
little enhanced scrutiny of your tax
return yeah um
but but um so so that was another area
where the wyoming legislature went wait
a minute
how do we how do we fix this and
probably
the the most important thing in my
opinion that the wyoming legislation
legislators did was created something
called special purpose depository
institutions
speedy banks and um
what's unique about speedy banks is
they're designed to bank the crypto
industry um both in fiat
but um because of the way um
um federal regulation is written banks
are the the qualified custodians
for um holding digital assets and trust
and which has been one of the real
hurdles to big institutional investors
getting involved in this asset class
because they're required by law to have
a third-party custodian
um third-parties third-party custodians
should be banks what the legislation
says but the fdic prevented banks from
banking this industry so there was a
circular problem that
that really stopped this industry and
wyoming did something really really
interesting and
a credit goes to three people uh caitlin
uh tyler lynch mentioned and a really
smart young lawyer named chris land
who was working in the legislative
services office at the state of wyoming
who said you know let's really let's
really look at this
and let's find out how we could fix this
problem and what they came up with is
something really kind of brilliant
which is these spdi banks are
um chartered banks by the wyoming
division of banking so they are
chartered banks and but
they put in a requirement where these
banks have to hold 100 reserve
and can't lend well if you
lend and you don't have 100 reserve
that would be fractional reserve banking
as you know then whenever you do
fractional reserve banking you put your
depositors
at some risk and you need fdic insurance
so what wyoming came up with is
hey we found a way where we can create a
bank
okay and that bank doesn't
have to have fdic insurance it can but
you know there's challenges there
um and so they threaded the needle
of of regulation and created these new
institutions
now wyoming was out there for the last
two years doing this
and every other state in particular new
york's
nydfs said you guys are crazy you know
you can't do this
no um and then
about two weeks ago a very interesting
announcement came out from the occ
um that's the office of the controller
who
and they're the they're the regulatory
body for national banks
and they came out and they said national
banks can now
custody cryptocurrency now it's not
going to play out exactly the way people
think it is because
saying it and getting all the regulatory
stuff in place and the rules and all
that
will take time but essentially what the
u.s
government or or a branch of the us
government just did
is said you know what wyoming you're
right
[Laughter]
and you're you're right again right
yeah well yes it's good news bad news
for wyoming
um it's certainly you know validated
everything that you know we've been
doing for the last couple of years
um but it also opened the door
for national banks and we were kind of
hoping that wyoming would have this
that its own little industry um a great
example
would be uh what south dakota did in the
early 80s when they changed their usery
law
uh specifically to attract credit card
processing
right now most credit card processing
happens in south dakota
and last i heard i think there's about
16 000
jobs in in south dakota particularly
around
around that industry we were hoping to
do that in wyoming and i still think
that's going to be the case
because you know just saying you can do
this
you know is one thing having all the
the laws and you know ucc
mapping and the regulatory structure
all of that wyoming did all that and
you know the the federal government's
now or the occ is going to have to do
all that too
and that's a heavy lift and so i i
i do think that it's a threat to wyoming
but we've also got a two-year head start
and you know i think if these wyoming
banks
um um you know get up and running
quickly there's two of them right now
that are going through the regulatory
process
um once they get up and running um you
know i
i i think wyoming is still going to have
a huge advantage
over you know any other bank and um but
that that that needs to be seen but
again you know
wyoming was right you know
yeah you know it's good that women vote
okay we were right
you know they're only over half of the
populations you know
it just makes sense um but i gotta tell
you it's
it's actually a fascinating story if you
allow me to take a little
digression a little bit um wyoming
wyoming wanted to become a state but it
didn't have enough people
at that point in time you needed to have
don't hold me to this number
you had to have like you know 50 000
residents to be a state or something
like that
so wyoming being creative said well
let's give women the right to vote and
and we'll hit that number and so
congress obviously sent out a delegation
to negotiate with
the the then territory to become a state
and
um and i'm cutting out a lot of the
details but to make the long story short
the delegation said and this was in the
1860s said
well listen we'll make you a state but
when you do that you're going to have to
take away the right of women to vote and
wyoming said
you know what on second thought we don't
want to be a state
and didn't become a state until 1896.
so they stuck to their guns you know and
you know some i can't remember the time
period it certainly was over 25 or 30
years
went by where they said no we're not
gonna we're not gonna give that up and
ultimately wyoming was admitted as a
state and
it maintained the right to vote for
women 20 years before the rest of the
country did
and um and so you know again
it's that rugged individualism it's you
know that wyoming ethos of saying you
know what
no we're not going to change the way we
do it just to become a state we'll
you know thanks but no thanks and so
that that that's exactly the spirit that
allows
the innovation like what happened around
blockchain
to happen um i cannot give enough credit
to
um the wyoming legislature i you know
quite honestly two governors have now
supported this
um and um and you know the
uh university which i'd like to take a
minute and talk about
the university is jumping on board with
both feet into this industry as well too
and um you know that's that's what makes
wyoming unique is they they just
get things done and um and um and it's
the way the legislature is set up you
know wyoming legislators are not
professional politicians
they are limited by the constitution how
many times they can meet
um you know they're paid a per diem for
when they're in
session and and believe me in many cases
it doesn't cover the cost of a hotel
room
to come down to the capitol and so these
people
all after the session is done go back to
their full-time jobs and i think
that's another thing that makes wyoming
unique is we don't have a
a ruling class of of legislators
who their only job is to get reelected
you know these people
serve because they want to give back to
their communities and
you see that in the way they create
their legislation
and it's you know being from the east
coast it's
fascinating to watch how different
wyoming does it than
so many other places and to some extent
people
ask me you know could could you know
would i help another state do this
i don't know if another state could do
this um you know it's a perfect storm of
situations that i don't think exists
anywhere else
and um so that's where we are
i love that you said that because you
know i was kind of segwaying
into that a little bit that you know in
a lot of ways
uh wyoming has preserved
that original uh american dream and
you know has been protected and isolated
uh to a certain extent uh and
is able to carry forward those ideals
that are just so innovative
and uh it's refreshing to hear that
especially
from a political perspective and
definitely don't want to get into
politics uh
at all um uh because i'm sure it'll
offend a lot of people
but um let me let me just interject and
say this
the the blockchain bills in wyoming were
entirely bipartisan that was something
else that was really unique
is both sides agreed
wow you know and the funny thing is is
like you know i've
had the opportunity to work with both
democrats and republicans
on reviewing bills um you know in
washington dc
and it is funny that you know
on that particular topic um you know
folks tend to get along
and agree uh where you're thinking well
this is a fairly complex topic
and you don't really fully understand
the tech but you guys are all on board
you guys
get it so i'm not going to argue with
that um but
you know there's a lot to unpack on what
you talked about
uh steven and you know one thing that i
definitely want to highlight that i
think is
often overlooked as people start to
embark
on these blockchain initiatives is they
often overlook
the the legal structure the formation
period
around uh these essentially ecosystems
that you're creating
and where you form this entity
is so vital to its success and what you
can
and can't do and so oftentimes people
want to jump straight to the technology
they want to say okay this is what the
technology can and can't do
right but they forget what can you
actually do
by law um and you know
if if i was thinking about a traditional
business
you know delaware of all places is a
very popular place to establish or
or nevada uh and then likewise for
blockchain there's
hot spots you know like wyoming that
provide
more flexibility to be able to do things
and so
you know i just want to just emphasize
that again
that when you're thinking about going
down this blockchain path
you know make sure you engage with your
legal folks your business folks
to really really concentrate on the
regulatory aspects
uh the formation aspects because that
can be
a make or break moment for you depending
on what you're trying to do
am i quote unquote off the reservation
here or uh
am i uh in lockstep with how you think
not at all
no listen i you know before i got in
this space you know i've spent my career
working in
you know in large companies and and
you know starting businesses and running
businesses and
you're absolutely right you know um you
know i know the
you know the a lot of my you know my
bitcoin and my cryptocurrency brethren
out there
are going oh regulation is bad you know
um you know you know you know in a
perfect world there'd be no regulation
there'd be no banks there's
you know we would all have this
peer-to-peer system the reality of the
situation is that's not going to happen
anytime in the near future
and um uh an individual who i really
respect in the crypto
currency world uh named trace mayor uh
many of your
your your um your um your viewers may
know him
you know once said to me a great uh
something
a great phrase which was you know you
know technology needs to be backwardly
compatible to the law
too you know you need to you
you ca it's great if you build something
but if it's illegal i'm sorry it's you
know
that's a problem and um now i'm gonna do
another little plug for
for wyoming um the way the wyoming laws
are
are are built and and by the way one of
the one of the bills that was passed
was a fintech sandbox that will allow
uh companies to experiment um
with some new concepts and i'm
oversimplifying it but as long as you're
not trying to rip somebody off
and you continue to keep the wyoming
secretary of state's office informed of
what you're doing
they're going to give you a little bit
of regulatory leeway to experiment
and allow your business to to
to grow and develop and you know there's
you know the the wyoming secretary of
state's office i've worked extensively
with them and they're
terrific people you know you can pick up
the phone and call them
and they'll actually talk with you
that's another nice thing about wyoming
you know i i the governor will probably
be upset with me for saying this
but you can kind of walk into the
capitol you don't have to go through
metal detectors and
you know and you can you know you can
you know
walk around the capitol and you can you
know visit some of these offices
you know a lot easier than when i lived
in new york city and
um so the these you know
these agencies here in wyoming recognize
that they're here to help you and
so um if you do have an interesting
concept
um i would you know absolutely follow
your advice mike talk to your legal
counsel
uh always talk to your legal counsel and
despite popular belief they are your
friend
despite popular beliefs
yup the ones that you pay are your
friends absolutely
and um um but um um you know
but the way the wyoming laws are written
you know if you have a nexus
to wyoming then you benefit from this
legislation so
in this distributed world we live in if
you if
if you domicile your company in wyoming
you may be living in austin you may be
living in
in you know cincinnati you may be living
anywhere you can domicile your company
in wyoming
and take advantage of all of these bills
that we passed
and and because you've got that nexus
and um in the in so so i would encourage
people who are starting businesses or
or are concerned that their current
regulatory environment may not allow
them to be able to
expand their concept or grow their
concepts you know i would encourage you
through your legal counsel to reach out
to the state of wyoming
by the way there's a there's a number of
very talented
um attorneys in wyoming as well too
who because of this have really learned
this space
and um and quite honestly there's
accounting firms now
that know this space because of what
we've done and
they are certainly willing to you know
offer advice and guidance on
whether it makes sense for you to have
an access to to um to wyoming and
whether that would benefit you or not
but um but i absolutely encourage you to
you know certainly do that
um you know look uh you know i in the
course i teach
um you know as much as
as i'm a you know huge blockchain
proponent
you know you don't go out and you build
a blockchain company
what you do is you go out and you solve
a problem and
if that problem involves blockchain in
the solution
terrific um you know you but but you
can't do it the other way around
i think that's the same way with with
regulation
you know what you know you know you need
to you need to make sure what you're
doing
is legal and compliant and you cross
your t's and your dot your eyes
yes i know that in a perfect libertarian
world that wouldn't exist but
you know that's not that's not the world
we live in yeah you know people have
imaginations and they like to kind of
think through that and you know it
it's very similar you know i had this
conversation uh
with with with another cryptocurrency
person that you know i
you know really respect uh she's you
know
just insanely smart um but you know we
kind of got down this rabbit hole
of kind of this ideal world and how it
should be and you know i i
just you know had to say you know i'm
gonna i'm gonna stop you there
you know the word should um
you know whenever we have these types of
conversations
should really shouldn't be in the
conversation because
at the end of the day there are very
hard restrictions there is
physics for government there's physics
for the the business world that
there are these immovable objects and
outside of a
catastrophic event um you know the
government
completely dissolves uh you know you
know whatever it may be
it's you know the walking dead becomes
true uh
outside of those very very unlikely
events
uh capitalism isn't going anywhere and
so we can talk
all darn day long about
disintermediation and
crypto and you know all the great things
that it will open up
you know maybe 50 maybe a hundred years
from now but today in the
in the short term you know these are
institutions that have been put in place
for i would say very good reasons
even though they may be archaic now and
we may have
outgrown some of those controls but
those laws and regulations were put in
place for a reason they weren't just you
know someone just didn't
say tomorrow i got i got a punch list i
gotta make sure i get these in
but they were built um for a reason now
the challenge with our system is we're
great at
creating laws but we're not so great at
retiring laws
um and actually actively going through
and saying
okay here's the list what do i scratch
off you know wouldn't it be great if we
had
a process in our in our legislative
system where
every year you had to do a law audit
and you go down the list and you see
silly laws like
if you spit in public you go to jail uh
or you know all these kind of crazy laws
that you hear about
um and so you know kind of you know i'm
digressing a little bit but i think it's
an important point
which is it's it's all coming back to
ground yourself in the current reality
you know
yes you know think about future vision
where things could go do scenario
planning you know say okay if scenario a
comes
true in the next five years here's how
we'll handle that scenario b scenario c
scenario d
however the problem is is that one we
don't know what the future is going to
be
but two we work within a current system
and you can there is some level of
predictability of that system
you know laws don't don't happen
overnight
so don't think that you can move to this
utopia you know very quickly so
uh you know i guess i'm building on your
point there around your conversation
that you know ground yourself in reality
these
technologies especially things like
blockchain uh they open up the
imagination
uh and they really challenge
fundamentally challenge some key
constructs that we we have built to
protect us
you know we you know we've created
brokers and intermediaries for a reason
they were to protect us and to help you
know it's just like the processors for
you know the you know food industry they
were there for a reason
now we may have outgrown them because of
technology or what have you
but they're there for a reason so um
you know i think that having that kind
of practical reality is really important
to ground us
and to your other point that i think is
critically important
is yes blockchain's cool blockchain sexy
there's a lot of hype
people want to hear about it but you
know kind of how i think about it
whenever
i'm having these conversations with with
customers is
use blockchain is kind of the opening
hey yes blockchain's cool
it's it allows you to do these sorts of
things
okay now let's quickly pivot what
problems are we trying to solve
and we can map all those great
capabilities that blockchain can provide
but then let's make sure we do it in the
context of
real things that are real problems and
it's a really great way to
look at your existing strategy and say
okay let's do a heat map on
where having something tamper resistant
is really helpful within our current
capabilities
uh let's do a mapping of where mastering
data because
one of the benefits of blockchain that
people don't talk a whole lot about
is master data management i look at
blockchain as a great master data
management system
with a fraction of the cost of an mdm
type of solution
but where does that help um you know
where do we need to build more trust
where do we need to build peer-to-peer
data exchange and you look at your
current strategy you go oh okay
now i can kind of see how this applies
and
that will resonate with your business
partners go okay yeah so
now i know what business area now i can
start doing
roi calculations i can start okay if i
did this
what would that mean to my transactions
oh you're telling me that this
reconciliation process
that required five people and two months
of man effort to do every year
that is around 50 million dollars that
it's
costing me to operate this you can cut
that to 100k a year
sold then you know it's a
straightforward conversation
but also it's a great way to as a
template
to look at both challenging current
strategies and saying
why the hell are we doing this anymore
uh this is silly
uh to also hey this opens up
a whole new business model a whole new
set of capabilities that uh
we can embark upon as a business and so
you had mentioned
you know you do uh some work at the
university of wyoming
maybe tell us a little bit about that
work and how some of these concepts
kind of interweave in the work that
you're doing there
sure well another area again i'm gonna
i'm gonna sound like a broken record
where
wyoming is unique is we only have one
state university
that's it the university of wyoming is
the state university and we have a
wonderful
um group of seven community colleges
that feed into the university of wyoming
so university of wyoming is in a unique
place it's a land-grant
school so you know there's certain
things around land-grant schools
everywhere that's that that's unique
land grant but when you're the only one
it creates unique opportunities and one
of the unique opportunities
is the unit the university takes a a
you know a much larger role than many
in the economic development of the state
and
so the university has seen
what's going on with these blockchain
bills
and and said you know what you know we
have created something unique and
different
um we don't want to have the same thing
happen with the llc law
where we created a great idea and then
delaware
to their credit jumped on it and now
most llcs are created in
in uh in delaware i think wyoming is
number three still which is great for a
small state but still
we we we were the leader of something
and we kind of let it get away from us
um
so so you know we've got this we we've
got this
unique new pardon of expression we've
got this unique new unique new toy what
do we do with it
and so so the the university recognizes
that
um almost every college within our
university
can get touched by by blockchain you
know we've got a very strong ag school
well i mean i'm president of beefchain i
can certainly give you the
the you know the aggregate the
agriculture strong points of it
um certainly our business school and
finance
i mean distributed finance and fintech
is changing
you know almost by the day um so you
know
um the you know university of wyoming
has a uh of
an excellent law school so you know
there's
there's a real need for lawyers that
understand this
this um this asset class and so the law
school sees a real unique
opportunity there we've got a power and
energy school
well you know tokenization of of um of
environmental credits
and you know co2 sequestration
and so you know as you look through
a university like wyoming's um
almost every college has a an
application
a very real application that that
blockchain could
benefit into the credit of the
university
they've said you know what we need to do
is
you know most colleges this in most
universities even
university of wyoming you know each
college is kind of its own little entity
that
yes kind of you know reports up to their
version of old main but they kind of
work independently
what can wyoming do differently and the
thought there is
why don't we pool all of our resources
and
create an interdisciplinary center that
works with
all of the different colleges within the
university
and helps them create programs
um where we could share resources and
the first thing we're going to be doing
is we're going to be creating a minor
program
and that minor program initially will
involve three of the colleges
um the college of business the college
of ag and the engineering and
in information systems you know college
and we're gonna share
we're gonna share resources i mean when
you think about it a fundamental
fundamentals one in the fundamentals two
class
why do three why do three different
colleges have to
have those same classes why don't we why
don't we just pool our resources
and do that and you know in our law
school
is look at looking at uh doing a jd
mba with a concentration in in uh
in blockchain and and so that's we're
going to go first
is um you know helping the colleges you
know um
create those those those programs
because you know i say this quite a bit
um and you know
uh wyoming's biggest export is its
college
educated youth you know you you graduate
from the university of wyoming
if you're not going into ranching you're
not going into power
power and energy you know you're
probably going to leave the state
and get a job somewhere else how do we
stop that right you know
you know we're you know so so we look at
this
as one you know this is an industry that
can bring economic development to the
state and the university wants to be a
part of that
um we we see that there
is um you know a shortage of people that
understand
you know you work in this industry it's
hard to find people that
already know especially you know young
people who already know
a lot about this industry the first
thing you really have to generally do is
teach them about this industry unless
they're programmers
so how do we fix that you know how do we
how do we train lawyers that can really
go out there and
and you know advise properly in this in
this asset class and accountants that
can advise properly in this asset
class so so that's part of the mandate
we also believe that universities um
are are um are where the research
for industry should be done and um
you know there's there's a there's a
number of universities
that um have truly uniquely set
themselves apart one of them is
university of arkansas
um who's really gone after the supply
chain
aspect of this and it makes sense in
arkansas because of the big supply chain
people that are there i mean it's
walmart it's jb hunt it's
you know all these amazing companies
that that this technology is going to
revolutionize
so the university of arkansas has really
done something special with an applied
program
that quite frankly um i wanna you know
as much as i can shamelessly steal with
their permission
and because they've done something truly
unique and different
and um so i think research is a great
opportunity for us as well too
and um yeah you and i both can selfishly
plug uh the university of arkansas
blockchain coaby
and uh full disclosure being on the
board of that one
uh but you're right i mean you know uh
the best um
uh invention uh of humanity in my
opinion has been copy paste
um you know uh you know if it works
replicate it i mean it just makes sense
and
you know given the outcome yeah
yeah to the credit of the university of
arkansas they've
they've said how can i help you what do
you need
you know our we want to work with you
you know
we want to share faculty we want to
share white papers we want to share
because you know the whole the whole
ethos of the distributed
technology exists in in everything
you know you know both arkansas and
wyoming can benefit from us sharing this
information
you know we are in entering an open
source world
where everyone participates to make the
product better
and you know that should you know that
that should apply to
things like setting up centers of
excellence so to the credit of
of um a university arkansas and a
wonderful director you have there
mary lassite she has she has basically
said to the university of wyoming
we want to help you we want you to be
successful because i think we'll all
benefit from that
and you know that is you know that i
think is
uh that's the way the world is going and
you know you talk to bitcoin you know
core developer it's all about building
on
the existing code how do we how do we
through you know
how do we all work together to make the
base product better and
if if there's anything that's really
truly important
in in this you know open source ethos
it's really that everyone working to
make things better not necessarily
you know individual competition trying
to you know
uh you know keep trade secrets and
things like that i think this industry
um is fairly unique in in that way oh
make no mistakes you need to patent
things
you know when i teach marketing courses
you know i'm a firm believer in
you know don't attack somebody else's
fortified hill
you know build your own hill and fortify
your hill
and in business how do you fortify your
hill well that's patents that's uh
protect your ip you know to your point
earlier we still live in a world where
that stuff matters
um but um but you know this this open
source ethos i think is
is is truly an important um
development along with blockchain and
cryptocurrency
and um so um but um so the university of
wyoming is um
we'll hopefully soon be making a very
large announcement that we're going to
be
standing up a center uh and um you know
setting things up in universities is
you know not like business you got to
cross a lot of t's and not a lot of eyes
and
and um but um we're pretty much
pretty pretty much there and um
we we want um uh we want businesses to
come to us
and say you know how can we work
together you know what can
you know what what can what can wyoming
and the university
do to help me be successful and
that's exactly the role we want to take
you know
we want to get you in touch with the
right people we want you to work with
lawyers that can help you and
accountants that can help you and we can
facilitate you meeting with the
secretary of state's office or the
division of banking or
you know quite honestly you know we've
got a pretty unique way that we deal
deal with our state educational system
as well too through a
statewide superintendent so there's
there's you know the
you know the university can help
businesses navigate
you know that you know not knowing who
to go to in
in and we believe it's our role to to
to help short-circuit that so that you
know you can get up and running
you know more quickly um you know it's a
state that values privacy
um i think that's important for um
businesses especially startups that want
to kind of keep what they're doing
you know kind of quiet while they're
developing it um and our llc
laws are written around that in fact if
you use a registered agent you don't
even have to disclose who the
executives of company are when you set
up an llc so you can
you can you know you can work on these
these new businesses
and not necessarily tip off your
competitors that you're doing something
unique and different
um and we we want you know we want
innovation to come to wyoming and i
think
when you combine regulatory agencies
um you know the state legislature in the
university
all together into you know one goal
that's a pretty powerful force and um
and that's what we hope to accomplish in
the in
in the state and um and you know so
we encourage um you know businesses to
reach out um
um you know you can reach out directly
to me at the at the university
and i'll point you in the right
direction of of
you know who you can who you can deal
with um whether it's within the
university or
or outside and um you know we welcome
you know opportunities to work directly
with you um we have a
a blockchain lab and um uh the
blockchain lab
is developed to be kind of an um an
incubator
of concept and you know we want
companies to come to us with a white
paper and say we've got a great idea
help us build this
and you know our you know we can do that
through our blockchain lab
so i think we've got some unique um
unique attributes um that we hope
attract um you know like-minded people
who who want to innovate who who
you know who understand what a light
touch in regulation
means uh because that's kind of what
wyoming is about
and um so and and that's why you know i
i think that's why um you know the
university to to its credit
you know is is saying we need to we need
to be
a a central point for
um for this uh for this new asset and
this new asset class and this new
you know uh philosophy and um so we
encourage you you know give us a call
we we you know all right we're we're you
know so
we're putting always be cautious when
somebody from the government says we're
here to help
but yeah so we're going to put the 1-800
number down here below
call today uh no but you know
we we covered a lot of ground today
and you know it's it's pretty clear that
you know we could talk for the next
uh two or three hours about all this uh
but you know i think you know covering
you know and what's unique and special
about this episode i think
is we really dug deep into a lot of the
business application and a lot of the
essentially why why are we using
blockchain
for this very specific set of problems
and how is it going to materially
help people and you know i think you
know that's something that
oftentimes we don't talk enough about
and so
you know going deeper on that uh i think
is is really unique and
you know uh thank you steven for for for
sharing a lot of
these really you know frankly meaty
applicable real world stories that
kind of illustrate why this is so uh
important
and timely that we do this uh but also
you know highlighting some very real
realistic
uh uh guard rails that all of us have
whenever we're establishing
a business or creating a new product or
service
is that we have to think about the
regulatory side we have to think about
the the legal formation side of the
house it's just
it it's a hard uh uh barrier to entry
and so making sure that we are aware of
that and we're constantly thinking that
if we're going down that path
uh when we're building our strategies
that that's just so critical
but also how wyoming is just so
inclusive
and a lot of the history um you know i
didn't know i knew
uh about the uh the voting thing but i
didn't realize that there was that order
and you know didn't decide to join the
u.s and all that great stuff
uh that was super fascinating but if you
would allow me
you know i would love to take a cut at
your mission statement and you know i
think really your mission statement for
beefchain
should be you know our goal is to put
the mystery meat on the endangered
species list
i think that should be your tagline
but um i'll if you allow me to end with
with one joke as you know there's you
know there's a real big push right now
for plant-based
you know hamburger and and patties and
things like that
and i remember having a meeting with one
of our ranchers
and you know talking about whether this
is a threat
and he looked at me and says you know
what steve you know my my cows have been
turning vegetables into
into beef for eight generations so
[Laughter]
i don't i don't think beef is going away
anytime soon so
um listen it was a real delight um and
um
and you know thank you for giving me
this opportunity to talk about beef
chain
and the state of wyoming it's my
adoptive home
but i've just absolutely fallen in love
with it and um
and quite frankly uh the university
which has not only embraced me but
embraced this whole
whole technology um you know this is
this is a truly unique
and special place and and you know if
you're setting up a new business
uh or looking to set up a division
that's going to be experimenting in this
space
i think it behooves you to you know at
least kick the tires in wyoming so
that's my lap my final commercial for
the state of wyoming
your final plug that no but i think it's
a legitimate one i think everyone
uh uh needs needs to hear it and so uh
you know like always we're going to
provide
a ton of links and i'm going to ask you
stephen for a ton of material
on some of this new coe stuff we'll put
it uh with this
episode so people can see it but uh last
and final question for you
steven um if people want to get a hold
of you how do they get ahold of you
um look you could reach me at my um
probably the best way is connect with me
on linkedin
it's you know steve lupian you'll see me
at the university of wyoming
and beefchain so connect with me on on
on linkedin um you can you know you can
reach me at um
at s looping at uwyo
university of wyoming dot edu or you can
reach me at
steve at beefchain dot io
and reach out to me i you know if i if i
can help i'm happy to
if i can point you in the right
direction i'll be happy to do that
and um you know i'll uh and if if i
could help anybody
navigate make their lives a little bit
easier in this space
i'm i'm delighted to do that awesome so
and i want to thank you for giving me
this platform
and uh and um you know it was a truly
delightful um doing this interview and
and
i and i appreciate what you're doing and
and and
and do want to thank you for what you do
with the university arkansas as well too
and um so um uh the you know the the
space needs people to
to step up and take leadership roles so
i appreciate what you've done
and listen stephen anytime you want to
come back you're more than welcome so
i'm looking forward to having more of
these with you
be careful what you ask for
[Laughter]
all right so with that real pleasure
thank you so much
you